How would you like to make your first million? And today we have John Cosins joining us from New Mexico, United States. So tell us John, one of the five step to make your first million. Welcome to Unstoppable Podcast with Harry Sardinas. Inspiring conversations with influential millionaires, investors, thought leaders, entrepreneurs who are making a massive difference with their innovative products and services and sharing the challenges and wisdom of how they sold their first million. Thank you, Harry, and a pleasure. Thank you for having me on. And hello, everybody. And the the five steps is number one is everything starts with an idea. Everything that comes into the world starts with an idea. And you want to make that concrete. That's ultimately the thing. But you have to start with an idea. And so testing your idea, understanding it, going through it so that you really think that you have something. And then before you everybody has ideas.
That's the the second part is that everybody has ideas. Ideas are a dime a dozen. You're not going to make a million dollars with an idea. You have to make it into something practical. And so that's the next step is taking that idea and translating it into something practical. The idea of zero to one they had talked about that great you know it's a Peter Teal you know started that idea and uh Blake Masters was in his class at Stanford. Peter Teal came and did this class at Stanford and did notes in that in that class and then Peter Teal said let's make this into a book. And that's how that book came around. And so taking it from zero to one, that is the entrepreneurs's uh an entrepreneur is basically like a midwife. You're birthing these ideas into something real.
So how do you take something that is an idea and then make it into something concrete? Well, nowadays, so that's that's the next step is to start action. have a bias towards action where you're not just going to let the idea drift in your mind, but you're going to start to take steps into making that into something that people can respond to. Because no idea, no matter how great it is, how great you think it is, um is is going to withstand the first encounter with potential customers, you know, and that's ultimately what you want to do is you want people to be interested enough to open their wallet and give you some money for your idea. So second part is to start testing your idea and then you can start to modify that um and and see how it works uh how people are interested in it. And so part of that is you want to get to the place where you have product market fit where you where you have a product or a service that people want to buy. And once you have that then the next step I would say step you know three or maybe four now you know is uh scaling that. So then you want to scale it up. So how do you do that?
You can do that so easily now online. Just like we're talking and you know, you're in London, Miami, I'm in the desert of New Mexico. You know, we can uh and and then share our ideas with everyone. So you can put your you know, start to get a social media following. Uh make something that is a lead magnet that then you can offer to people that then you can exchange for their email address and start building up an email list. So you have an audience that then you can uh start to communicate with and see your idea. I would say one of the most important steps is you have to solve some sort of problem for folks. Either it it's a pain that you are alleviating or you know like a painkiller or it's a vitamin where you're giving some you're giving delight. So either it's you're al alleviating some kind of a pain or pain you know that people have in their life or you're giving them delight. Those are the only two businesses there are. So you have to figure out which one you're going to be in and you have to make something that people are going to value that it's actually doing something that they need done in their life. And the way that you find that is by just things in your own life that are uh that bother you. you know, something like I wish such and such would happen or blah blah blah or what, you know, and then you say, maybe I, you know, let me reverse engineer that if that's what I would like, how could I make that happen? And nowadays, we have just so many tools at our our disposal to make a business without a whole bunch of money. Used to be, you'd think, ah, if only I had a million dollars, I could start a company and hire people and all this. Now you can do it all automated and and get your ideas out there and open a Stripe account or a PayPal account and people can deliver money right into your bank account and you deliver them some sort of a digital product, you know, a digital download, a PDF or a or videos, you know, courses or books or whatever to start.
Um, then you can start to create value and you're going from zero to one. And then once you get from zero to one, you have that product market fit. you know you have something that really works, then you can scale it. You can start doing spending some money as you're making money, spend some money on Facebook ads or on on on Google ads or start doing some paid ads and and develop a social media presence and uh and all those kind of things where people know who you are and and then they start to trust you because you're creating value for them and uh and then you take it from there. So I would say that's the way to go from zero to one and and you do it in small steps and you have to do it every day. Every day. And so that's the key. One of the big things is you have to give up your bad habits. you know, you have to stop procrastinating by watching TV or going out and partying or, you know, whatever it is is that's your that's your favorite way to kind of cower and hide from doing the brave work of getting out there cuz it's scary to get out there and present yourself to people and then have them uh maybe, you know, maybe they're going to say what you're doing is stupid or you're an idiot. And everybody has those fears and uh a lot of times they're unfounded. You go out there and people say that's a great idea or you know it's how you present it too. But you really have to give up your bad habits so you can create that time to devote to uh making your ideas a reality and making that reality, you know, uh more value than you're asking people to pay and then they pay and then the money comes in. And uh you know, think about it. A million dollars is not that much. If you have, you know, a thousand customers that give you $100 each, that's $100,000. You know, do that 10 times, you have a million dollars. Charlie Mo who was uh uh a brilliant guy who was Warren Buffett's partner at Berkshire Hathaway he just passed away but you know poor Charlie's almanac is a great book of his wisdom but he always said the first thing you have to do is scrape together however you can do it $100,000 you know if you have to live on you know rice and beans and live in a one-bedroom or a studio apartment and save all your surplus income until you have $100,000 that is where that's the inflection point where there you can from investing you can start making more money and uh so I think that's you have to have a nest egg you have to have some money together and so you know whether it's getting a job or creating a couple side hustles that give you some surplus income that then you can save you don't take that money and spend it on a Lamborghini or something you save it so you can plow that into your business plow that into your ideas so John tell us I how you decide to become an entrepreneur well Um Harry, it's a it's a it was quite a quite a uh uh a journey. So I I uh my my journey is basically been uh started as a an engineer and then became an entrepreneur and then became an investor. Um because that's sort of an arc, you know, uh and when I was an engineer, I I loved I was electrical engineer. Um, I started out in rock and roll recording studios and because I loved music and I love Yeah, it was really super fun and built up technical knowledge there. Then I went to work for an equipment manufacturer that meant made the uh the audio and video machines that recorded all the music and tele and from there I went to television.
And I worked for ABC television out of out of New York when uh back when there were three networks in the United States and there wasn't streaming and you know so it was in the 1980s when when network television was still very powerful and then from there decided you know I was an engineer I was uh developing uh and building uh facilities for the network and doing all kinds of big broadcasts like World Series and uh NFL football and uh news and sports were our basic you know the live television were our clients within the company and uh space shuttle launches and political conventions and Olympics I did the Olympics in Sievo in 1984 I was part of that team and as I was building you know what we were doing all the time was pushing the state-of-the-art production people would say we want a slow motion camera we want a a a microphone that could do this we want you know uh uh writing on the bottom of the screen of the names. And so I would work with companies to develop these tools and then we deploy them and then those companies would go and sell hundreds of them and make tons of money. That was you know my ideas basically I would translate these ideas of what the need was talk to these companies they would make it and I thought I want to be on that side of the business where I'm actually you know uh not only creating that value but capturing that value you know I didn't want to create the value and let somebody else capture it and that's what happens when you work for another a company the whole idea of working for someone else is that you're making more value than they're paying you and that surplus value goes to the owners. Yeah, you want to capture that surplus value that you're creating, you have to be an entrepreneur. You have to work. But I think you have to be very uncomfortable because you, you know, as as an engineer, I'm sure that this company pay you a lot of very good money and they keep you very happy to stay in this company. So why would you all go out from out of your comfort zone, out of your comfortability? Like, okay, I go here, I invent something, I create something, uh, but you know what? I'm coming to work at 8:00 and finish at 5. I don't have to worry about anything. I can I can enjoy my life. So, um why you decided to go from comfortable to comfortable? I think that you just described it. Yeah, it was worth it. Was it really worth it? Well, now those are great questions, Harry. Then the Exactly.
You know, it's like golden handcuffs they call it. You know, you got these golden handcuffs. They give you I'm making a lot of money. They're taking care of me. I have a pdeium, you know, like I say, I don't have to worry at the end of the day. I go and uh so there was a lot that I I gave up for that. And that's that's true. Basically, what I decided to do was I realized I didn't know anything about business. I knew about engineering, but I didn't know about I picked up a ABC annual report and I realized I don't understand this balance sheet, income statement, you know, strategy. So I thought, you know, and I always wanted to go to business school. So I decided I'll go to business school. That that was that was good. That was good idea. That was good. And it was my transition. I just didn't I I I I went from uh uh you know working there to I went and got my MBA at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. Wharton finance a lot of numbers people go they call them quant jocks right because you know they they from engineering you knew I knew all the numbers. So finance was something that I kind of could understand the numbers of. went there and got my MBA and thought I'd go back to New York and, you know, work for, you know, one of the big companies there or, you know, try to do my own things. But then I go ahead. Yeah. Fell in love with New Mexico and wanted to move out here and that was kind of another big leap because it's not a lot of business opportunities out here. I had to make up my own business opportunities, you know. So, uh, I love the lifestyle. I love the, you know, I mean, if you look, you know, I'm living where it just fantastic. Yeah. And, uh, it's beautiful. But now that they have the internet, I can talk to you, you know, wherever you are and and and we can talk to everybody all over the world through these things. So, I I feel much more connected. But, uh, those are big leaps. And then I started a bunch of companies. I started to try to and that was tough. I'll tell you when I went to when I went to business school, two years not working. I had a young family to support. So I those expenses and it was like $100,000 in tuition, you know, more than that. It's like $70,000 a year, about $140,000. So I ended up in those two years digging myself like a $400,000 hole, you know, and so then I started wondering is that really worth it? It's a big commitment. And and so that's what I do now is I after all my making companies, I took two public. I uh I ran the public companies for uh 15 years as CFO and CEO and then I decided I I have a company now called MBA ASAP and ASAP is as soon as possible. So it's a business administration. I love I love the name MBA as soon as possible. Yeah. ASAP. So just just the things and as affordable as possible as well because John you know I see these people Yeah. in London, right? uh that they they they want to spend thousands and thousands of pounds in in an MBA and I'm looking at them I said look uh I used to uh my main business was in property we managed to sell 5 million but uh I had one business once there was a restaurant in a very uh competitive area in brick lane in London I lost £200,000 in that thing so I always said to the people you really want to do proper NBA open a restaurant you will in a in a competitive place and it's going to be um more more effective because in the end of the day, John, entrepreneurship is about um it's a skill. The more you practice, the better you become, right? But also knowledge is important and I think John that in those businesses school including this one that you were that you pay how much you pay like $100,000. I'm sure that most of your teacher there were no entrepreneurs. Yeah. So uh I don't get I I I applaud and uh I I've been thinking Yeah. because uh I study chemical engineering because my parents want me to be an engineer and to find a job and to and to be exactly the same corporate. So I I I become an engineer to keep my parents happy. Yeah. So but um the whole thing is that um once um I I think that the other thing that we get out of engineering that is applicable for business is that every day that we go to the university we we listening the word problem there physical problems there are mathematical problems there are chemistry but we spend five years yeah um solving problems that they are hypothetical Yeah. So somehow our brain develops certain capacity to solve problems. We know that problem have different solution. We are not scared of problems. And I think that this help me a lot in in my career as an entrepreneur. Yes. So we when this is something that you have when you decide to become an entrepreneur that most of the people don't have that at least you were not scared of the word problem. Yeah. and and you got a lot of like I said knowledge that you learn in this MBA obviously it's priceless right but um we need more entrepreneurs teaching MBAs right uh what what what what do you think about this Harry I absolutely agree with you my my my uh uh and and I think with engineering it does it's a great uh beginning thing to do because one it's a career you can always fall back on and Like you say, you're solving problems and it teaches you systems thinking and process thinking and that is really an entrepreneur. If you have something you have to do, you know how to reverse engineer it and then make steps to get from here to there. And so that kind of training is really really good, I think. But you're right, when I went to my MBA, it was a lot of theoretical knowledge. They were all PhDs and they had all just gone to school and read books about it, you know. And so that's when, you know, I started teaching in some universities after. Oh, wow. That's very good. Yeah. And I the textbooks are like this thick, 800 pages. And I said, I can, you know, I've been a a public company CFO for, you know, 15 years now, you know, and CEO. I can boil that down to 10 pages of this is what you really need to know. Go out and start doing it. Like you say, it's a practice and the only way you really learn it is by practicing making a mistake or it's not even a mistake. It's not the right way to do it. Acknowledging that very quickly and then pivoting to something else, trying something else until you figure out ah this is the way it works. It's like driving. It's like driving or swimming is is the more you practice the better you. You can read a 100 books on driving and not really know how to drive until you get behind the wheel and all of a sudden, you know, there's, you know, something in the road and you got to turn and and so you start to learn how to do that. And yeah, and and then the beautiful thing about entrepreneurship too is that once you do it, then you can do it again and again because you start to learn it's a skill and it's a process and once you figure out your way, then you can apply it to lots of different situations. And I really I felt like after a while I I I just didn't want to work for a boss anymore. I didn't like being constrained by people telling me what to do. I wanted to do what I wanted to do. John, after 2 years um of and you know $400,000 down the line, you have your family and everything. This is happen in your head sometime that maybe maybe I should go back to my job or you were so determined that just you you you b in the back of your mind well you know I'm going to try one more year but if this thing doesn't take off I go back to my job that I know they're going to take me you were sometimes boats like this yep no I I have a good friend who was a partner of mine for a while for a while wonderful guy very talented and he used to say well if this doesn't work in six months, you know, I have to go back and get a real job, you know, and I like, you know, that's the way, you know, we always get a real job. Yeah. Yeah. But right now was and it was too much fun doing the kind of things we were doing. So, uh, how about family and friends? Do you have any pressure from family and friends that say well uh you know I still my mom she doesn't understand what I do. Yeah. Same with mine. And then when when we said I'm going to expand the company, they said don't expand. This is my mom. Yeah. Don't expand. Don't expand. It's okay ladies, right? But it's diverse and and it comes from love. I know they love us so they want to good and that's why our our parents tell us to be an engineer or a doctor or a lawyer because they want they think those are strong careers and you can do that and lots of us do that. You became a chemical engineer, I became an electrical engineer. We did that to please our parents because when we're young, we don't really enter in my family. I don't know about in yours but there is no entrepreneurs in my family. Everybody my they were hardworking. Yeah. just hardworking people. Yeah. You know, and so they didn't understand what I was doing. They didn't know any better. They just telling us, look, you want to do good in life, go to university, study degree, find a good job. This is how you're going to do it. And you know, this is the dream that they stop for you. And then you want to make your parents happy and proud of you. So you go and do this, but then you go to work. At least I was in the same boat. Uh you know, I was very difficult as an employee because, you know, I wanted I always want to solve the problem in a different way. Uh and and and exactly the same thing, right? Like I remember I used to work in Spain as software developer. Yeah. Uh developing software, but then I end up doing project management company. Yeah. So they told me don't write code anymore. It's better better to do to do this, right? Because you know it was more more because you have an engineer. So it's better you to to pro manage project. We have a lot of people to write code but if you manage the project effectively we can save a lot of money. So um so that thing um again I was thinking like what like well if I can if I have this skill and I always trying to solve the problem in a better way and this has been very profitable for the company saving a lot of money. I thought well maybe it's a good idea for me to become an entrepreneur. So I b the boat from Spain and I went to London with nothing. Wow. Good for you. Good for you. And it's because we don't want to look back on our life and say, "Gee, I wish I would have taken that chance or I should have done that. I don't know how." It better to try it and then maybe not do it. You know, the best is you try it, it works great. But if you don't do then you don't have those regrets at the end of your life like, you know, I shouldn't have played it safe and why did I do that? And even if you stay with a company, you know, it's very very risky because lots of companies that were around 10 years ago or 20 years ago, you think you're going to have this long career and they go out of business because they were, you know, the technology changed, the markets changed, products changed, and customer taste changed, and suddenly the company you're working for is no longer a viable company. And so it's risky to try to play it safe. you know now Joe let's go back to another question as well because I believe in order for you to become a good investor at some point you have to be an entrepreneur first um what do you think about you know these um hedge funds and and or these venture capitalist uh VC funds right that they are actually people some of them manage managing those funds right and the people um manage and We have an issue with that also because you know like for example we find out women in tech they're way way way under funding compared with men and probably the reason for that is they're brilliant they have a great idea they have same capacity that as men to grow a tech company however people organization with the funds and and the people on charge of manage that funds I think they are just go and take the box okay the box like John
Okay, how much are your sales? How much is this? How much is this? Tick, tick, tick, tick. Here's the money. Whether if you have an entrepreneur there, you can have maybe more deep understanding what what is the phases of the company and probably more um we can help also this this project as well that they're great project and again they are they are not even look at because of the because of the stereotypes or because I don't there are no there is not that many entrepreneurs on charge of the big funds so just again employees that you They follow the rules and they are very good following the rules and but they are good at this specific job. They they climb the corporate ladder and now they're managing and fund for a startup and everything without never running a business which I think is challenging because you know it's this extra thinking. So what what is your view on this John? Do you think that um more entrepreneurs should be there in in those positions? And why does this um um fund especially have uh very low um funding for women esta top funders and especially women in tech? Yeah. And why do you think is the reason and why there is no more opportunity for funding for women? United State all over the world in London is the same thing. So what what do you think is the main reason? Yeah, I think ultimately it's uh like you say, it's the mindset of the guys running and it's this tech bro culture where it's all these guys and you know they think that they know best and so yeah you know uh women and minorities things like that they dismiss and they just go after people that think like them and look like them and then that's the people that they're going to recognize and and you know ultimately that's not going to be so successful as a fund because you're not looking at maybe the best opportunities there and the the real talent, you know, because anybody like women, you know, are are, you know, they have to, you know, they have to work twice as hard to just to show that they're as good as a guy, you know, man. And they're really talented. They're really determined. And so that's the kind of person that you want to be backing as an entrepreneur, somebody who's not going to give up, not going to take no for an answer, and is going to drive and keep going. So reality, women or men, if we can identify this type of founder, that's all we need. Right. Yep. Absolutely. And so there's I'm sure a lot of opportunities and I know there are some funds now where they're actually run by women trying to target women entrepreneurs and uh and and they've been successful and yeah there's so many opportunities you know like you say a lot they just tick the boxes and they want to find the next Google. So they're looking for that and they're not looking at well that the entrepreneur. Yeah. every I think everybody's looking for this unicorn to this for this billion thing and they are forgetting that we live in a society that we have communities and you know the we can help people you know if we can help somehow to someone do what you did which is was create your own job you create your own job and you also create a lot of job for a lot of people right and economic development yeah yeah so we it become a global conscious entrepreneur. Right? So this uh actually and um so I I actually interviewed the the finance minister of Zimbabwe uh six years ago and and this is what he told me.
He told me, "Harry, look, we have a steep power program where we lend money to small farmer so they can grow some vegetables and and they sell it and they pay back the loan, then we can lend them again and so on." And they he told me that women they were paying way better the loans than B. So any kids and you know they paying back the loans and asking for the second one and growing a little bit more. So he told me you know that that that they they were very happy lending to to women right. So I think a man takes more risk and this is also important uh when when when you uh when you want to grow a business but also to you know to have this uh um this responsibility when it comes to to money that I that women women are very good at nurturing that and I think that that that in the investment world everybody's losing a lot of opportunity just to just create a framework and head a little bit more. Right. No, I agree. And and like you say, women have a I think a more of a sense of responsibility than men. I think men, if they mature at all, mature later than women do, you know, and and women do better, you know, girls and women do better in school than than the boys do. They they can really focus and and do well. And and when you're lending money, you want people to be responsible with that, other people's money. you know, they have to be responsible with that and not say, "Yippy yippy, I just got a million, raised a million dollars. Now I'm going to go to Las Vegas and, you know, play rich guy." Instead of saying, "No, this money is going to go into this company and it's going to be spent, you know, very uh accurately to to develop this company and to pay back whoever the investors are, whether it's debt and, you know, as your credit, you know, type of thing, or whether it's as an investor and you have equity in the company." And uh and you're right, entrepreneurs make for great investors because they've been there. They can see it. They can analyze an opportunity very quickly and say, "Yeah, this is a good opportunity. I put my money into it." And then I then entrepreneurs can help the entrepreneur because they've done it before. We have the scars and bruises for what went wrong. And you can say, "Try this, try that. Don't maybe don't do this because I did that and it was it didn't work." You know, and exactly. And people want an investment only with money that bring also something else to the table like for example you listed two of your company. So if the startup is thinking to list the company why it would be a great great idea to have in the board as an investor because it's not only money you can bring also expertise yeah and knowledge and this is also very beneficial for starttop founders because you know they can have a blueprint how to how to list the company. So John, what type of industry is your favorite or um or or or or you don't have any any preference when it comes the product is good, you like it, um you you get involved or there is a particular industry, let's say tech or whatever that you prefer. Well, I you know those are that's a great question. I like all the industries. I do a lot of investing in the public markets. So they they break that into different sectors and I I love all the sectors. I'm a big techno optimist.
So I love everything with any kind of technology and that might be from my engineering background too. But absolutely developing technology so fast. So um you know I like biotechnology, I like uh electronics, I you know artificial intelligence I think is just going to be huge and uh but it's very difficult to pick winners right now in that because it's evolving so fast. move fast and it's expensive. Tech's expensive. It's expensive. Yeah. It's because too much money is into it that it's been bid up in price. Yeah. So, finding other low tech things that are maybe undervalued that can really be great is another thing I you know that I I like to do. So, there there's there's just so many uh opportunities I see that it's just exciting. You know, the hard part, I think, is to focus and pick one or two and let all the other great opportunities kind of because if if you try to do them all, you end up doing nothing, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's really but that the challenge John that I see a lot of in a lot of um the biggest challenge for investor I I think a lot of um meetings right when the when the investors of the venture capitalist said okay uh come and see me when you have a next idea right so and then the the founder look at me and say what what what is mean what what he's trying to tell this is my project. Why he doesn't invest in my project? And I'm trying to convey to the start of fun said, look, the issue is that he will only invest in an entrepreneur and you're not dead yet. You just product and you have a product, but you're not an entrepreneur. You don't have what we talking at the beginning, this skill. And unfortunately if they the investor don't see any sign that somehow you have not the full skill but you at least you're halfway and you understand you know product market feed and you understand that you have to do marketing and you have to sell and you have to um be flexible and and you have to be creative and you got to uh keep the budget uh low and until they don't see signs that you are And then the non- entrepreneur but you understand this um these concepts not from a book. Yeah. Because as an investor as an investor I know that when you talk with the founder and you ask question you will know if if he actually done it or read it from a book. Yeah. And sometimes sometimes founders you know they they think that investor is stupid. Yeah, I was saying look the reason that he's an investor is because most likely Yeah. If he's especially if he's an angel investor or something is more likely have been an entrepreneur most likely have been several exits more likely is have seen a lot right so we cannot go and talk to the investor with an idea or or with this uh basic we don't know if you going there trying to raise funds to try to fool the investor it's not going to work because they they can smell it with you absolutely yeah You have you have to be you have to be experienced and know the way. So yeah, like you were saying at the beginning, you know, the ideas first and then making a minimal viable product, one that's just just put together that you can put out into the real world and see what the responses are and then from that iterate. Exactly. That is what the problem start. Yeah. That they're going to come to you and say, John, you know what? I want this amount of money for the minimum vio product. You're talking to them. I said, look, it's a minimum viable product. It has to be cheap. You need so much money if it's minimum. You should be fine for what you have. No, no, no. We put the minimum. So now they don't want to create the minimum anymore. They want to take your money to create something that is not even minimum.
Now they're going to big elephant with your money and then they're going to come back to John again. John, we create this big elephant. And now because we haven't asked anyone, we cannot sell it. So we need more money, John. So we can go and market to see they want the elephant like this or what to shape. So, and it doesn't uh because you know you're going to make mistakes and you're going to have to redo it and and that's the thing and then once you get something that people like and you got that product market fit from that minimal viable product that you didn't spend much money on and once you have that then you can start to scale it and I have to say I always thought at the beginning that once you make the product once you make the service everybody's just going to come they're going to know about it and that's going to be and I found marketing marketing and sales are really the hard part that making the products the marketing and sales are the hard part, you know, and that's where money you need the money for, you know, and so you can't like blow your money on the product and then have no money for marketing cuz you know, 100%. So that's why I'm saying, you know, like if you see an entrepreneur that come and say, "Okay, John, did you see this is my minimum?" Because a lot of people, everybody's looking for funding, but nobody hear from an investor what the investor really wants, what is it looking for? Yeah. So can you tell us uh John briefly you know what what is the ideal scenario uh for the investors in some line like for example this basic thing that we I mean looks basic for us but obviously the founders they have different dynamic they don't understand that you know that if you have a product and is actually an MVP and you spend very little and you create something and then you go out yourself and with your little team and you sell to two three people and you make some kind of revenue. These are very good signs for the investors. Very good signs even if you know an entrepreneur there. So John tell us what what why is so hard for tech founders find funding? Yeah. And what are the signs that the investor are looking for to um to to to support them but again they they they need to see some signs. So what signs the investor are waiting for? Great great questions Harry said. One thing I just want to say about uh you know being an entrepreneur like you said you know um hiring people and giving them a good life you know because you're create what your creation has done is made enough money that you can give people a livelihood that's always a incredibly satisfying thing and then also developing their talents to make them better you know at their skill sets and but for this you know I think that people go out and you know try to raise money too fast if you can just get that minimal viable product get it out in the market and then do customer discover discovery and customer validation where you really get some customers.
These are people that are going to pay you to even at the minimal viable product phase where it's still buggy and not really but they want that so bad they're going to pay you. That like you say is the super indication to an entre to an investor that this this product and this entrepreneur understands the process and got something that people want. So that you know and also with a with a real timeline of where the exit's going to be. You know, the problem with raising money is, you know, if I put money into the stock market and I buy uh Google or Meta or what whatever it is, you know, company, I can always go and sell that that, you know, stock tomorrow and get my money back cuz it's liquid. It's a liquid market. Venture capital and investing, angel investing is not liquid. If you give them a check for 100 grand, you're not going to see that money again. If you're lucky, you might see it again, but not for three, five, seven years, that's a long time, you know. So, if if you have a product and say, I've got this thing, these I've got these customers. I know that this customer segment is is pretty large, and I know how to reach them. It's an addressable market, and I'm going to build this company to this amount in this amount of time. And here's the milestones and deliverables, and we're going to be we're going to exit by acquisition in three years. We're going to sell this company to one. and here's the targets that we think will buy us because they'll want this to fit into their portfolio of companies and we want to list the company in 5 years and yeah people like great and and it's going to be a a 10 times the return to our investors it's like sign me up you know but if it's just like oh here's this I'm going to make the revenue go like this well how are you going to do that well I don't really know you know it's going to be because we're so great everybody's going to love us that's not good enough absolutely Yeah. So, exactly. Yeah. they have to have like like testing you know like some numbers to to validate to to to validate this some and and I really that you know if with the right uh that's why sometimes John the I I hear a lot um some investor tell to the startup founders like like you said you know they sometime a second time funer founder it becomes even more attractive to investor because they already try to run one I mean it didn't work but now those found that they do have experience they are more close uh of what actually how the dynamic is whether I don't know why but um the standard or how everybody thinks yeah is okay you know what I'm going to create this beautiful product and everybody will come and buy it yeah we all been there yeah in some form yeah I open a restaurant in in brick lady in London lost £200,000. Yeah. And I have a brilliant idea to to do a guitar in the ceiling. Yeah. And my video telling me, Harry, do you know how much this guitar is going to cost? We have to close this place for 2 months just because of your guitar. Do you really want this? We do it, but do you really want it? I'm like, no. This restaurant going to be so beautiful, so amazing with Spanish guitar on the roof that everybody's going to come. Yeah. So all the money, time and effort went to this amazing product. Guess what happened? I opened the door. No one came in. Zero. And but I think we learn we learn much more from our our mistakes and our failures like that. That's where we learn. It's like what did I do wrong? How did what you know? That's what we learn. If we have a success, a success kind of breeds arrogance and we think I'm brilliant. I anything I do is going to work. And then we're setting ourselves up for a big failure. It's better to have type of uh things where Wow, I thought it was going to go this way. It didn't. What did I do wrong? So, we learned. That's where we really learn. That's what I've learned.
Yeah. Yeah. Today, the restaurant is a Chinese restaurant and I still have my guitar there. The the Chinese guy that took it, he said, "Well, I'm not going to I'm not going to spend a week removing this the point. I better use this money to for marketing and to bring clients and to sell my food." Yeah. But I think that th those kind of experiences teach us humility, too. So it's like, well, I don't, you know, I really need to test this out in little doses to see what works and find out what works. Yeah. And I think that's it. I'd rather have failures that teach me humility than successes that make me arrogant, you know, because then then know I'm going to be set up for failure. The other thing, John, um how did you um m um maintain yourself? uh align with the you know this ego and you know because we uh being an entrepreneur this ego and arrogant oh I'm the boss everybody have to do what I say and then the company's a struggle everybody fighting the culture is not is not there so um and we realize with experience that the more we surrender this ego the more we bring everybody in the team and the more uh um the we create that culture Yeah. Actually from my own company the the my manager they fired me. I went to work one day and they told me Harry go home we don't need you anymore. I'm like what? Said no go home. So you need know you're a success. Yeah. Yeah. They said I said you don't need peppcopy. They told me no we can get a warm pep in the photo copy. Go home travel the world. Do whatever you want. We we don't need you here anymore. And it was an amazing I feel a little bit weird like uh um strange but uh but that was an amazing experience. Yeah. Well, amazing experience. You know sometime a lot of people talk about how to deal with failure. Nobody talk how to deal with success. I had so much money. I was not doing nothing. I was so bored. I go to brick lane. I open restaurant and I lost 200,000. But this is for another podcast. So that's true.
How do you deal with success? You know, when you climb that things don't know what to do. Yeah. And that's you you actually trained you trained a team that could do everything. I mean, that is the pinnacle of success to be able to do that. So, that is wonderful. And you're right. It's a balance of, you know, you have to have the ego to say, I can do this. I can charge forward. I can make this happen. But then it has to be balanced with the humility of like, I may be wrong. You know, I like that idea of strong opinions, loosely held where you have strong opinions, but they're loosely held because in the if you get new information, you're willing to change your mind quickly, you know, and that that's really key. And but that's that's sort of the art of it, you know, within our own minds. It's like we have to have this, you know, we have to think highly enough of ourselves that we think we can do it. And then we also have to think, wait a minute, though, the world is, you know, uh, is not going to conform to our will. We have to, you know, be flexible. Yeah. So, so John, if if someone is, if if some tech founders or some founders are listening this podcast, I want to talk to you or want to share the project with you. How can they find you? How this process work? Oh, yeah. Thanks. The uh uh well, if if they just Google my name, John Cousins, it it comes up cos. And uh my company uh my website is mba-asap.com and on there I have uh access to all my courses and and uh and I I have a uh a community too uh that is peer peer-to-peer you know where where people get together and they they share their ideas they support each other and then I have all kinds of different uh coursework in there for them to do to be get to skill stack to get better skills in strategy and marketing and finance and accounting and you know management and leadership and negotiations and all these kind of uh you know skill sets that an entrepreneur has to have all of those you know to really and make a mosaic of them to conform to what they need to do that day and then they need other skills the next day. So you have to be you know very very knowledgeable and skilled in all these areas I think to be successful and that takes some time you know you can do it fast but you need all those that's why I try to you know do it fast and then people that are out there wanting to do it they don't have to read all these textbooks and stuff they can just boom go right out there and start applying these things and see what works for them the better you become yeah get that toolkit together yeah and uh you know I'll send you all my I'm I'm on all the social media and everything else so they can reach me that way too I'll send you all my links to the different things and a newsletter, all that kind of stuff, too. We will be in the description of the podcast. And for all of you following the broadcast, see you in our next episode of Unstoppable. How brave entrepreneurs like John Break that wall and achieve the first million. Bye for now. Thank you so much, Harry. Pleasure. Follow us for more interviews with world's most influential, audacious entrepreneurs that overcame challenges and adversity, providing you with the blueprint of how they sold their first million so you can grow your business exponentially.